For the previous debates, I'd tried different tactics.  I simply summarized the next day, I twittered, I live/drunk blogged... but this time I thought it might be interesting to watch the debate with a group of people.  As it turns out, Drinking Liberally was last night, and they had a room setup at Sugar Maple with a television where everyone could watch the debate.  I've been to Drinking Liberally before, and in general it is always a nice time.  No matter how much we disagree (sometimes angrily) online, the atmosphere was always welcoming in person.  As it turns out, I should have known better, and had I to do all over again, I would have simply drunk blogged it from home.  But more on that later.  First... the actual debate.

I should preface all this by saying that I missed certain portions when I stepped out to get more Scotch Ale, and that I didn't watch the last 15 minutes or so because I was just sick and tired of the whole mess.  So this is coming off a comination of my recollections of the night, and the transcipt of the debate.  I really didn't like this format at all.  Because of the extended "discussion time" allowed, the candidates ended up chasing their tails and repeating things a lot.  There was very little value in having this extra time to talk about things because each candidate seems unable to do anything be re-deliver talking points, despite Schieffer's pleading with them.

Who's Tax Plan is Better

McCain - "They're innocent victims of greed and excess on Wall Street and as well as Washington, D.C."  Look... I understand that its generally not a good idea as a politician to tell the voters that its their own damned fault... but voters are culpable in this mess too... and we know it.  There are a whole slew of people out there who would actually vote for the guy if he would talk about people buying houses that they knew they couldn't afford.  Then he talks about his horrible, horrible, mortgage plan.  He wrongly states that if we don't do this, people won't make their mortgage.  Look... you may not like that you're paying a $500,000 mortgage on a house thats worth only $250,000... but unless you were doing a risky ARM, that doesn't change your mortgage payment.  It sucks, but the monthly bill is the same.

Obama - "I think everybody understands at this point that we are experiencing the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression."  Way to introduce confidence in the markets Barack.  And your statement is only true if we continue to enact overbearing government solutions to the problem.  Then he mentions his horrible, horrible "job creation" program.  *sigh*

Joe the Plumber^TM

This is probably what got me drunkest last night.  Every time they mentioned Joe the Plumber, I had to take a drink.  Here is the video that everybody was referring to:

The problem is that most undecided voters probably never heard of Joe the Plumber before last night, and McCain talked as if everyone did.  What I realized is that most of his debate answers were assuming an audience of insiders, who are following the election closely.  That is incredibly stupid, because they've already made up their mind.  In that sense, overall Obama did a better job last night because he did a better job of explaining his policies to someone who hasn't been keeping up with all the tiny battles.  McCain needed to talk to the audience of undecided voters, who haven't been following the election closely.

Obama's strongest response regarding Joe was this line: "Five years ago, when you were in a position to buy your business, you needed a tax cut then."  It's the perfect liberal line... and is also the most angering one in that whole debate segment.  The point of the Joe the Plumber^TM story is that he got to where he was without help 5 years ago.  Obama is telling him he needed help, and Joe was telling him that he did fine with just hard work, and now didn't want to be punished for it, just to make it easier for someone else at his expense.

Joe could have been a good hit during the debate, but McCain kept coming back to it, and so it made him seem desperate, like he didn't have anything else to hit Obama on.  Every time he mentioned Joe the Plumber, it made him look weaker.  And what is it with "Joe's" anyway?  Joe Six Pack^TM, Joe The Plumber^TM, Joe McCain (John's younger brother), Joe Average American^TM... they're everywhere!

On Taxes

McCain - "The fact is that businesses in America today are paying the second highest tax rate of anywhere in the world. Our tax rate for business in America is 35 percent. Ireland, it's 11 percent. Where are companies going to go where they can create jobs and where they can do best in business?"  I wish McCain had hit this harder and more often.  This was one of the best things he said all night.

On Spending

Once again, Scheiffer did what every other moderator has done, and tried to get either candidate to mention something, anything, they wouldn't spend money on.  Once again, both candidates are in la la land.

Obama - "Well, first of all, I think it's important for the American public to understand that the $750 billion rescue package, if it's structured properly, and, as president, I will make sure it's structured properly, means that ultimately taxpayers get their money back, and that's important to understand."  This is the same government that helped to create this problem, and that has never in it's history properly structured anything.  Why on Earth should anyone think that you can all of a sudden do it right?  Seriously.  How stupid do you think we are?

McCain - He immediately goes to the tired old rag of energy independence.  As Megan McArdle commented:

McCain tries to draw a distinction between good foreign oil from Canada, and bad foreign oil from Venezuela.  Can someone sit down with him and explain, using small words and charts, the meaning of the words "global market" and "fungible commodity"?
...
Not to be outdone, Barack Obama claims that he, too, thinks we can get off that nasty Venezuelan oil in 8-10 years.  All right, let's get down to brass tacks:  which one of these two candidates has more pull with the Fairy King?  Because that's where you get the really cool sustainable technology.  You never see fairies using fossil fuels, do you?  No you don't.

Neither candidate understands global markets.  McCain then brings up earmarks again and his "across the board spending freeze" which doesn't include the military, veterans benefits, Social Security, Medicare... in other words... it doesn't include 90+% of the budget.  How brave.

Obama - He calls McCain out on the reality of pork, but then claims he'll be more responsible, when he has no history of being able to do so.  Are you seriously trying to claim that as a Democrat you'd cut spending?

Best Lines of the Night

Both candidates had their best one liners in a short period of time here.

McCain - "Senator Obama, I am not President Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago. I'm going to give a new direction to this economy in this country."

Obama - "Now with respect to a couple of things Senator McCain said, the notion that I voted for a tax increase for people making $42,000 a year has been disputed by everybody who has looked at this claim that Senator McCain keeps on making. Even FOX News disputes it, and that doesn't happen very often when it comes to accusations about me."

On Balancing the Budget

McCain tries to claim he can do it in four years.  Obama repeats his tired line of going over the budget line by line.  The way McCain asserts himself in these situations really gets me.  He never says how, he simply asserts "I can do it my friends, I know how".  It reminds me of this scene from Office Space:

"I have leadership skills!  Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?"  I'm kept waiting for McCain to talk about his Jump to Conclusions mat.

On the Negative Campaigning

This was simply a stupid topic to talk about.  McCain sounded hurt, but not very convincingly... and the reality is... both parties are at fault here.  Both parties throw mud and pretend they don't, and act hurt by the mud the other side throws.  Welcome to American Politics.  McCain did do a good job hitting Obama on his broken promise to take federal funds, but thats about all that was good here.

This is also where Drinking Liberally turned a little nasty and I had to step out for a few minutes before I lost control.  I said something to someone next to me regarding how both sides are being nasty, and he brought up some of the McCain attacks, and seemed to think Obama supporters were clean.  I said that "Nobody is clean here.  Look at the people who are calling Sarah Palin a cunt".  He then looked me straight in the face (with his girlfriend right next to him) and said "But Sarah Palin is a cunt."  I almost lost it right there.  I simply responded with "Then you are no better than anyone else", and walked out for a few minutes.

Who's Vice President Would Make a Better President

Scheiffer - Please take the next 5 minutes to gush about your Vice President, because I'm need to take a breather.

On Health Care

Obama - If you like your current plan, you can keep it.  All we're going to do is make it cheaper, and make health care cheaper.  How?!  He never really says.  Some how, by forcing companies to insure people with pre-existing conditions (which increases costs), and subsidizing more medication (also increases costs), we'll lower the cost.  Obama's math skills seem deficient here.

McCain - We need to put medical records online.  That's probably the most idiotic idea I've ever heard.  How many times a week do you hear about government databases being broken into and criminals getting information for identity theft?  How often do you hear about online stores having credit card numbers stolen?  And you want to put my medical information online too?  Fuck that.

On Abortion

Nobody wants to admit a litmus test, but everyone has one.  Next question.  On the "infanticide in Illinois" issue... like abortion itself, it doesn't sway anyone sadly.  If you're pro-life, you like to hear about this, and if you're pro-choice, you believe Obama's response.

On Education

Obama - More money for college!  Have you ever noticed that every time the government gives more money to people to go to college, the cost of tuition goes up a corresponding amount?  So more government money for college doesn't solve the problem, if there was one in the first place.  Not everyone needs to go to college.  I honestly don't think that having more people with degrees in "Women's Studies" or some of the other liberal arts degrees, actually gives them much value when they try to go to the work force.

McCain - Dude, why can't you say "I'll abolish the Dept. of Education and put control of your child's education back in you, the parent's hands?"  It's just that simple.  The Federal government has no Constitutional mandate to do anything about education.  Instead, all it can do is blackmail states into doing things by withholding funds.

Afterwards

As I said, I missed the last 15 minutes of the debate, and when it was over, I spent a little while talking with some of Ally's friends who happened to be there.  When they left, I made the mistake of going back in and chatting with some other people after the debate.  I ended up talking with a rather beligerent postal worker who poked me several times while making his point, and actually shoved me a little.  I held my ground, and somehow remained respectful, while still firmly making my points.  He actually complained during the exchange that I was trying to win the argument by being polite.  I was then put in the awkward position of apoligizing to a person for being polite to him.  How silly of me.

During the exchange where he berated me for being a libertarian, and tried to talk about how markets were evil, how computer software is ruining the world, someone else threw a coaster at me.  They're cardboard, so its not like I was hurt physically.  But it made the point that at a certain point, people would rather not talk, and would rather intimidate, or take the easy route and resort to childish stunts.  Alcohol never helps either of course.  Thankfully, the liberal bloggers I know weren't involved... these were just liberals hanging out watching the debate.  Thankfully I then had the opportunity to talk to one of the Drinking Liberally regulars who is a law student at Marquette.  It was a good conversation, and luckily salvaged the evening... but I still don't think I'll be heading back there for a while.