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Wednesday, April 02, 2008
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What Would You Say to This Man?

I have no idea what else I could add to this horror:

At the age of 19, Murat Kurnaz vanished into America's shadow prison system in the war on terror. He was from Germany, traveling in Pakistan, and was picked up three months after 9/11. But there seemed to be ample evidence that Kurnaz was an innocent man with no connection to terrorism. The FBI thought so, U.S. intelligence thought so, and German intelligence agreed. But once he was picked up, Kurnaz found himself in a prison system that required no evidence and answered to no one.
...
And Kurnaz claims his interrogations at Kandahar turned to torture. He told 60 Minutes that American troops held his head underwater.

"They used to beat me when my head is underwater. They beat me into my stomach and everything," he says.

"They were hitting you in the stomach while you're head was underwater so that you'd have to take a breath?"
...
Kurnaz says the Americans used a device to shock him with electricity that made his body go numb. And he says he was hoisted up on chains suspended by his arms from the ceiling of an aircraft hangar for five days.
...
Six months after Kurnaz reached Guantanamo, U.S. military intelligence had written, "criminal investigation task force has no definite link [or] evidence of detainee having an association with al Qaeda or making any specific threat toward the U.S."

At the same time, German intelligence agents wrote their government, saying, "USA considers Murat Kurnaz’s innocence to be proven. He is to be released in approximately six to eight weeks."

But Azmy says Kurnaz was kept at Guantanamo Bay for three and a half years after this memo was written in 2002.

Via Megan McArdle (or rather her guest bloggers).  We're not talking about water boarding here.  This man (barely an adult) was tortured.  He was beaten, drowned and electro-shocked.  That is torture.  He was held without trial, and without benefit of habeas corpus, and it all happened when he was innocent of doing anything other than traveling to Pakistan.  Had he actually had any semblance of a trial, he would have been released.  This is why the protection of due process exists... specifically to prevent atrocities like this from occurring.

To all those who want to keep Guantanamo the way it is... to all those who condone torture in the name of fighting terrorism... what would you say to this man? 

He has a book out which tells his story... it's on my reading list.

# Posted at 7:35 PM by Nick  |  Comment Feed Link 8 Comments  |  No Trackbacks

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Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:10:54 PM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
I'd say, I think you're missing some details.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/what-60-minutes-didnt-tell-you-about-murat-kurnaz/
Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:47:33 AM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
I say "prove it".

Why do you automatically assume that he's telling the truth about the torture? I mean, he is trying to sell a book.

There seems to be lots of evidence that disproves a lot of what he is saying. I don't know if the torture did or did not happen but I think he's saying what you want to hear.

Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:53:53 AM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
Burden of proof is on the prosecution. How the F*ck have we forgotten that?!
Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:48:29 AM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
Uh.... he's the one making the accusation of torture, therefore the burden of proof is on him, is it not?
Thursday, April 03, 2008 12:16:41 PM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
I want to see the evidence pertaining to the claims this guy is talking about. Besides, how hard is it to dupe 60 Minutes?
Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:08:51 PM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
He was also the one held without hearing, or bail, or council for how many years? That's the burden of proof that I'm referring to. You also mention his book. Given what the government is trying to do, and has done, they have a strong incentive to make it look like everyone there deserves to be there, and therefore has just as much incentive to lie.

If they had proof that he was guilty of terrorism, why would they avoid trial?
Friday, April 04, 2008 10:57:08 AM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
You must love the terrorists.
Monday, April 07, 2008 12:33:45 PM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
If they weren't guilty they wouldn't need defense attorneys. We just proved that by a 51-49 margin.

The inmates are running the asylum and solidifying their hold.
grumps
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