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Tuesday, June 12, 2007
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Will You Stop "Helping" Already?

Normally we're pretty happy when we find people who agree with us.  There is a certain comfort that comes from this.  But the more I delve into the world of punditry and opinionation, the more I sometimes find myself saying to people (at least in my head as I read things they've written).... "Stop trying to help already! You're really hurting the cause!"  Generally this happens when people make really crappy arguments in support of something you believe, or say it in such a way that even you say, "Now I don't even know if I believe in this any more."

I'm sure most people who are against the Iraq War felt this way about Cindy Sheehan.  I know that most people who have reservations about the war, or want us to pull out are not as extreme as she is.  In fact, those reservations have solid merit, and deserve attention.  Yet there is Cindy Sheehan, sucking up a lot of attention, and more importantly, providing a nice target for people like Michelle Malkin to concentrate on in order to make it seem like all anti-war people, and Democrats somehow, are like Cindy.  I'm sure Michelle privately wept when Cindy announced she was leaving the Democratic Party.  When Cindy was making her noise, any point an anti-war person said, no matter how valid, was drowned out by her.

I get a similar feeling when a lot of people talk about Voter ID in Wisconsin.  Being an old debater, I am keenly aware of how arguments can easily be spun by the other side, even when some people don't seem to realize it.  For instance, when the voter fraud allegations cropped up around Michael McGee, I just knew someone on the right would somehow use this as an argument for Voter ID, even though it wouldn't have done a damn thing to prevent it.  Sure enough, Fred (with a little prodding from some commenters), and others, bit down hard.  Arggggghhhh.  Great... now the debate will center around one losing point, that has nothing to do with the arguments for Voter ID.  What were you thinking?

Apparently a similar conversation took place on Charlie Sykes' show yesterday regarding the need to show ID to buy Claritin.  I complained about this a few weeks ago, and someone mentioned that it was a topic on the radio yesterday.  Apparently, the inevitable comparison with Voter ID was brought up.  I mentioned to this person how it was a stupid comparison to make, to which the response was... "But it shows the hypocracy in the whole thing."  Of course it does... but the hypocracy is in your argument now!  The suggestion is that we shouldn't have to show ID to buy over the counter drugs... and then you use that to argue that we should show ID to vote.  If you think we should show ID to vote, then why wouldn't you think it appropriate to show ID to buy over the counter drugs?  And if you think we should have to show ID to buy over the counter drugs, why wouldn't you want us to show ID to vote?  But the funny thing is, people who believe we should show ID for one, don't think we should for the other.  The two have nothing to do with one another... and yet you're drawing comparisons which can only hurt your argument.

The point is, all arguments for your viewpoint sound good when you're making them.  But often, those arguments will only prove to be fodder for the other side.  Sometimes you can help more by not helping.

# Posted at 1:26 PM by Nick  |  Comment Feed Link 7 Comments  |  No Trackbacks

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Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:04:36 PM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
Tell me Nick, how do you know that these people who were paid to vote were legally able to do so? ID could have helped in that matter.

Just because you can not draw a direct correlation does not mean it is not the right thing to do.

ID goes straight to corruption, it is an easy step that would bring some dignity back to the polls.

Everytime another person gets busted for vote fraud it butresses the position regardless of what that particular fraud was.

Maybe we need to go farther, but photo ID is the logical first step.

Gee some people commit the crime of embezzlement, maybe we should outlaw money....
Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:23:59 PM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
Point missed completely.

If you cannot draw a direct correlation... then rethink your timing. Save your pushing of that particular proposal for a time when a better correlation can be made. Because if you can't draw a correlation, then the other side will hammer you for it which will weaken your argument in general.
Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:42:44 PM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
The connection is simply subtler than people were making it. If we can require photo ID under the methamphetamine outsourcing law, then it is not, as the opponents claimed an excessive impostition to require it for voting.
Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:57:30 PM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
The difference, of course, being that the right to buy pseudoephedrine isn't in the Constitution.







Now, to prove Nick's point, I expect someone to bring up my gun control views because I mentioned the Constitution.
grumps
Tuesday, June 12, 2007 5:47:21 PM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
I often think the same thing, nick, when I read through posts in the blogosphere.

I just want to shake people sometimes!!
Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:06:30 AM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
Voter ID is a myth.
Only 140 voter fraud charges were filed from the 2006 election. Most were not intentional fraud, but wrong voting districts. Wisconsin had 10% of the entire nation's cases. Thanks to Biskupic, he filed charges to keep his job, and only one case was convicted.
The reality of 140 cases, is that they resulted from the 158,00,000 votes cast in 2006 nationally.
140 out of 158 Million.
Could anything be more rampant, have such a widespread and disasterous effect on every single election; county by county across the nation....the tens of thousnads of peopl in office by such fraud.

The GOP needs to get back to the reality of diversion tactics, like fag burni....I mean flag burning, creationism, and their favorite: Al-Qaida is the media, dems, women, lesbians, the French, trains, My Space, gays, Islam, Africa, lawn chairs, and the catering departments of every major film studio in Hollywood.

Voter fraud? Can't defend something that doesn't exist, but they try.
goofticket
Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:49:18 AM (Central Daylight Time, UTC-05:00)
Well goofticket... the reality is that we can never know... and that's the point of concern among many people. One simple and powerful way to perpetrate voter fraud is to go into a polling place with a list of people who are registered, but haven't voted recently (which is publicly available information), and then say you're one of those people, and vote as them.

If no ID is required, then exactly how would we determine that this is being done? We can't. So its foolish to say that the problem exists because there aren't many causes prosecuted, because if you're never asked for an ID, its impossible to tell if you are perpetrating that crime.

There does seem to be a lot of anectdotal evidence that this does occur however, which for some people is enough to push for the law.
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